International Crassulaceae Network Forum

cactusmieke

Member

From: Beverlo, België

Registered: 2009-07-15

Posts: 353

Echeveria gibbiflora? fulgens? of nog wat anders?

Hieronder een reeks fotos van planten gegroepeerd per herkomst.
Ech gibbiflora? in grensgebied Guerrero-Michoacan.

De volgende reeks is afkomstig van Oaxaca, langs de Mex190 noordelijk van Oaxaca. Voor ons is dit gibbiflora.

Een mooie reeks van Teposcolula. Monumentale planten, voor ons ook gibbiflora

Volgende reeks komt ook van Oaxaca, tussen Putla en Juxtlahuaca. Wij denken hier eerder aan fulgens (obtusifolia?)

We blijven nog steeds in Oaxaca, zuidelijk van Tlaxiaco. De planten komen daar regelmatig voor over 10 tot 20 km, op al dan niet aaneengesloten locaties. Door 3 verschillende personen werden hiervoor 3 verschillende namen genoemd, nl gibbiflora, fulgens en acutifolia. Alle fotos zijn van dezelfde standplaats. Wat denk je?

Tot slot nog een aantal beelden van een fulgens standplaats in het grensgebied tussen de staten Morelos en Mexico, waarschijnlijk obtusifolia.

en fulgens groeit ook op bomen

Last edited by cactusmieke (2012-12-05 12:47:26)

margrit

Administrator

Registered: 2007-09-03

Posts: 5,388

Re: Echeveria gibbiflora? fulgens? of nog wat anders?

Hieronder een reeks fotos van planten gegroepeerd per herkomst.
Ech gibbiflora? in grensgebied Guerrero-Michoacan.

For both states only E. fulgens var. fulgens is indicated, no E. gibbiflora though. This may not completely exclude E. gibbiflora, but in regard of the structure of the inflorescence this is not gibbiflora. The branches are much shorter than E. gibbiflora ever is.
E. fulgens var. fulgens is said to be smaller in all parts than E. gibbiflora and has leaves turning to reddish or brownish.

For the next two series I agree with E. gibbiflora.

Volgende reeks komt ook van Oaxaca, tussen Putla en Juxtlahuaca. Wij denken hier eerder aan fulgens (obtusifolia?)

E. fulgens var. fulgens and var. obtusifolia differ primarily in the size of the rosettes which is difficult to estimate from your photos. E. Walther says that var. obtusifolia "never approaches [var. fulgens] in leaf colour but is always clear deep green". Whether this is also true for extreme conditions, I do not know.

A question for the next series : Regarding the inflorescences there are at least 2 different plants included ?

cactusmieke

Member

From: Beverlo, België

Registered: 2009-07-15

Posts: 353

Re: Echeveria gibbiflora? fulgens? of nog wat anders?

For both states only E. fulgens var. fulgens is indicated, no E. gibbiflora though. This may not completely exclude E. gibbiflora, but in regard of the structure of the inflorescence this is not gibbiflora. The branches are much shorter than E. gibbiflora ever is.
E. fulgens var. fulgens is said to be smaller in all parts than E. gibbiflora and has leaves turning to reddish or brownish.

The plants were too big to be fulgens. The inflorescence was easy 80 to 90 cm high. We would visit in the south-west of Michoacan (Coalcoman) a plant that was named acutifolia (herbarsheet). We didnt because of it was a one day trip and J. Reyes said the plants were gibbiflora.

E. fulgens var. fulgens and var. obtusifolia differ primarily in the size of the rosettes which is difficult to estimate from your photos. E. Walther says that var. obtusifolia "never approaches [var. fulgens] in leaf colour but is always clear deep green". Whether this is also true for extreme conditions, I do not know.

The first picture of the plants from the neighbourhood of Juxtlehuaca shows a plant with inflorescense. Length of the plant (bothem of the rosette to the top of the inflorescense) is 30 to 35 cm. Most od the plants were about that.
Most of the plants were full exposed to the sun. In that case, we think it's normal the leaves turn red. We didnt see blue or purple in the color of the leaves (like often with the gibbifloras).

A question for the next series : Regarding the inflorescences there are at least 2 different plants included ?

Next serie (10 pictures) are from the same habitat, (south of Tlaxiaco in the state of Oaxaca). We choosed pictures of a bit different plants to show the variation of the plants. Its in the neighborhood of the habitat of helmutiana. You are not going to tell us we overlooked a specimen of helmutiana? We found there many, many plants and for us they are too small too to be gibbiflora (like Gerhard thinks).

Next serie (last one) shows plants from Huitzilac in the state of Morelos (11 pictures, the picture with the plants on the tree included). The pictures from Manue under fulgens var obtusifolia are plants from Huitzilac. Its a nice habitat with maybe thousends of plants. Most of the plants stay under trees and are not the whole day exposed to the sun, although a lot of them turn brown, red-brown. They don't have the marvellous red color of the plants from the neighbourhood of Juxtlahuaca.

Last edited by cactusmieke (2012-12-08 14:03:09)

margrit

Administrator

Registered: 2007-09-03

Posts: 5,388

Re: Echeveria gibbiflora? fulgens? of nog wat anders?

5. series - photos above, the plant at the very right has an inflorescence clearly different from the foregoing plants, that's why I said there are at least two different plants in this series.
You suggested acutifolia - you have this plant in your collection and can compare your photos.

Certainly no helmutiana on any of your photos ! ! !

cactusmieke

Member

From: Beverlo, België

Registered: 2009-07-15

Posts: 353

Re: Echeveria gibbiflora? fulgens? of nog wat anders?

The inflorescence of the plant at the very right is an old inflorescence (dry). These are looking always different. But i agree, there were many flowers at that inflorescence and not at the fresh ones. Mean flowering time was over, only a few spate flowers were seen. Anyway, the pictures are from the same habitat.