International Crassulaceae Network Forum

cactusmieke

Member

From: Beverlo, België

Registered: 2009-07-15

Posts: 353

Echeveria spec Cumbre

Deze echeveria vonden we op enkele km van La Cumbre, noordoostelijk van Oaxaca stad. Hij werd verdeeld onder ISI nr 89-50 als E. sp aff. juarezensis. In tegenstelling met de beschrijving van juarezensis zijn de planten stamloos of quasi stamloos, de bladeren eerder gerond dan spitsvormig, soms met mucro soms zonder, en vrij dun voor een echevaria, de bloemstengels hebben 1 tot 2 (3) cincinni.

margrit

Administrator

Registered: 2007-09-03

Posts: 5,388

Re: Echeveria spec Cumbre

Extremely interesting to see your photos of this plant here - I appreciate greatly that you share what you have explored !

What is the diameter of such a rosette, Mieke ?

cactusmieke

Member

From: Beverlo, België

Registered: 2009-07-15

Posts: 353

Re: Echeveria spec Cumbre

The rosettes are loose and somewhat asymmetric (oldest leave is the longest, next leave a little shorter and so on). See the new pictures.
So the diameter is mostly different in any direction, but we think its about 14, 15 cm for the biggest rosettes. The leaves are rather flat as you can see at the pictures. Its another difference with juarezensis. Fig 184 in Pilbeams book is showing a picture of a plant from the type collection of Tom Macdougall, taken by Reid Moran. I don’t see much resemblance (morphological) to the plants we found.

margrit

Administrator

Registered: 2007-09-03

Posts: 5,388

Re: Echeveria spec Cumbre

Regarding Echeveria juarezensis - the photos Fig. 182 and Fig. 183 in Pilbeam by John Napton, 1967, are a close match to the plant E. Walther has described as E. juarezensis in 1959 (see the black and white photos in E. Walther, Echeveria, 1972, p. 157).

The photo Fig. 184 by Moran is not a good match.

It has been misleading that ISI has distributed a plant collected 3.7 km south of La Cumbre as E. aff. juarezensis - while obviously not corresponding to Walther's plant. This name therefore should not be used again for the La Cumbre plant. There is no resemblence between E. juarezensis and E. 'Cumbre'. These are two different plants. Whether the true E. juarezensis has been recollected I do not know.

The photos of the Swiss Globetrotters also do not show E. juarezensis as described by E. Walther :

http://www.crassulaceae.com/botanik/pfl … A&gnr=1610

So to come back to your findings, Mieke - you may compare your plants with E. 'Cumbre' Pilbeam p. 312, 313 - if you have been at the same locality, it should be the same ! ?